197. Empathy and Communication: Leadership Lessons with Jared Redick

197 Jared Redick

Dr Chelsea: [00:00:00] Today is for the teachers. Those of you who are in the trenches with your dancers every day, trying to build mental toughness and love and support them. Hi, and welcome to passion for dance. I'm your host, Dr. Chelsea. And my mission is to create happier, more successful dancers through positive mental skills training.

And today I have a special guest to help me do just that. Jared Redick is an award winning sought after master teacher working with ballet companies around the world, a third generation professional dancer. He has an extensive as both a professional ballet dancer, and he currently serves as a full professor and assistant dean of dance at the University of North Carolina School of the Arts.

He's also an adjudicator with YoungArts and juror and master teacher with Youth American Grand Prix. Needless to say, he understands teaching dance and developing exceptional young artists. Today we dig into the heart of what it means to be a teacher. Talking about the balance of starting class from a place of empathy, but also making sure you are getting the hard work done.

Jared shares concrete ideas for building mental toughness that work for [00:01:00] all ages. And I'm so excited to share his expertise with you today. Here's my conversation with Jared Redick.

Welcome to passion for dance. I'm Dr. Chelsea, a former professional dancer, turned sports psychologist. And this podcast is for everyone in the dance industry who wants to learn actionable strategies and new mindsets. To build happier, more successful dancers. I know what it feels like to push through the pain, take on all the criticism and do whatever it takes to make sure the show will go on.

But I also know that we understand more about mental health and resilience than ever before. And it's time to change the industry for the better. This podcast is for all of us to connect, learn, and share our passion for dance with the world. 

Dr Chelsea: Hi, Jared. Thank you for being here.

Jared: Thanks for having me. I'm thrilled to talk to your audience and talk with you and learn a little bit more about yourself as well.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, thank you. I would love to hear a little about your own dance journey so that we kind of have that foundation before we start talking about [00:02:00] resilience and leadership. Uh, so will you share your dance journey? What brought you to your current position?

Jared: Yeah. So I am a third generation, ballet dancer. Uh, my grandmother and my mother were both professional ballet dancers. I'm a first generation American. My mother and my grandmother came over to the U S they escaped during the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Um, so. I've been around ballet and dance my entire life.

So I studied with my mother, started studying with my mother from very, very young age. Um, eventually she sent me here to where I teach now, which is University of North Carolina School of the Arts, , obviously in between all of that time, I had a long, long professional career.

I started out, , my professional career at, San Francisco ballet, and then went to what is now Texas Ballet Theater, spent some time at Miami City Ballet, and finished the bulk of my career at Boston Ballet before transitioning fully into both leadership and [00:03:00] teaching, uh, full time after I retired, of course, from the stage.

Dr Chelsea: Wow. Sounds like you have had a wonderful career across multiple companies. Will you talk a little bit about that transition between companies, your, your path, how do you get to the next one when one door closes, one door opens? I'm sure that's not always a linear or positive path, so.

We share a little bit about that journey.

Jared: yeah, for sure. So I was very fortunate to be in, I was in a couple of different companies, starting with San Francisco and then Texas Ballet Theater, Miami, Boston. And what I found is when I was 19, I was in San Francisco Ballet. I was a very young dancer in my first job and I did have an injury at that point.

Which actually was the reason I ended up leaving San Francisco Ballet. But, the, the process of rehabbing and , really desiring to be back on the stage, and back training, and doing the thing I loved, brought me to Texas Ballet Theater. I got a call, and I ended up at Texas Ballet Theater.[00:04:00] 

And then I was there for, uh, about three and a half years, and I found that I really needed a different repertory to challenge me. Um, and again, the rep was fabulous, but it wasn't what I wanted to be doing at that point. So I found myself Miami city ballet going to audition for the company. And I got very, very lucky that someone had just left and they needed someone that was similar to me.

And there I go. So I ended up in Miami city ballet for, for about six years, which was a fabulous time in that, uh, very Balanchine company. But then of course, um, I was there for six years and we did a heavy load of Balanchine works. And for me, I wanted to go back and do the classics and I wanted to do more of the contemporary works, which led me to audition for Boston Ballet, which really where I found my artistic home, um, which is Boston Ballet and San Francisco, again, bookended kind of very similar repertories.

The companies are very similar in terms of what they do. So I was [00:05:00] very fortunate to go to Boston and spent. Just an amazing six years in the company, dancing just a wide range of roles. And it really was the perseverance to kind of follow my own gut about what I felt I needed artistically, and emotionally, and intellectually as well.

Um, because it's such an intellectual process to be a dancer. , so I was very fortunate how, how everything played out, but again, it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of discipline and a lot of determination to, to make all those jumps and, you know, be successful to a degree in each of those companies.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, of course. And it, it sounds like there's that balance between taking the job that's offered to you and being a part of the company and the work that they're doing, but then also saying, I want something different. Like I said, following your gut and pursuing what you want. And so it's, it's not. Either or by itself.

Like it's not just be comfortable with the job you get and, but also you have to appreciate it [00:06:00] and not just pursue your dreams at all costs. Sometimes there's opportunities that you have to, uh, you're going to learn something from that current opportunity, even if it's not your dream job right away.

Jared: Yeah, and I would go further again with that is that I left each of those companies because I felt like I had reached a ceiling within those companies as well. And instead of staying in a company or a job, um, Where I was unhappy, or I did not feel that I could progress forward, I decided I wanted to be proactive about it.

And I remember having very clear decisions about those, like, Look, I am not in a good, positive place with myself. And so that's going to be reflected in my dancing and how I work. And it's not the company's fault, it's no one's fault. It's for me to figure out what is the pathway that makes the most sense for me.

So I would, that, that's what really, Um, was the impetus to go and audition and find other opportunities. And I was very lucky that I was able to do all of those things.[00:07:00] 

Dr Chelsea: I'm sure you do feel lucky as well, but I want to honor that that was a lot of hard work and a lot of, as you said, like discipline and choice and decision to. Follow what you wanted and recognizing your own ceiling and continue to push it. I think that's wonderful as a, as a dancer. And I bet you still do that as a leader.

 It's that always a student mindset.

Jared: I am a perpetual student. That is for sure. Um, yeah, and it was a, it was a lot of hard work. I mean, it takes the hard work and the discipline, um, the daily work. I mean, I think it comes from just being, being a ballet dancer or a dancer in general, the daily class. Just the discipline of going in and doing your daily work.

That process is so important. And that mindset has stayed with me and has been very valuable for everything that I've done after leaving the stage.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, of course. I think we learn so much as dancers that translates to everything we do after I'm going to ask about that, that hard work in the discipline when you were younger, did you have that when you were younger? Did you learn it later? [00:08:00] Maybe as a third generation, it was just, there is no other way when we talk about that part of your journey.

Jared: Yeah, I mean, I mean, to be really real about it, I mean, as a student, I know that I was not the best student in classes. I, you know, my, I have an older brother who used to dance. And if I was in class with him, I'd be cutting up with him. Um, making sure, you know, I was, I was a boy in ballet and, we get, we fortunately, or unfortunately we were able to get away with quite a bit, so the discipline I really learned, um, once I got into a professional company, I really, you just, you watch the older dancers, you see who's successful, you see who's, who's, um, modeling things that you admire.

And fortunately I was, self reflective enough. As a young man, to be able to model some of those attributes and that really served me well and continues to serve me. The [00:09:00] discipline was, it was not easy for me to do. I mean, and still today, I mean, I still think about, you know, um, where I am in my teaching career and being, I'm very physically active, but I have to make a conscious choice.

I'm going to the gym today. I'm going to go to the gym tomorrow. I'm going to do these things to keep myself moving forward, whether it's the gym or anything. So that discipline has served me well, but it is, it is work. It is, a constant process.

Dr Chelsea: Sure. And the, I think there's that difference between motivation and discipline, like you're not always motivated. Sometimes you just have to be disciplined enough to show up. Yeah, absolutely. , so when you were starting to look to those older dancers, like you said, modeling, okay, I would like that kind of career.

I want to be that kind of dancer. And you learn from that. Were there any formal like mentors in your life that helped that process as well?

Jared: Um, you know, my path was nonlinear, as I said, and I don't, I can't [00:10:00] really point to any particular mentor throughout my career, which is something that now as a teacher and as an artistic leader, I really tried to be that mentor that I never had. Um, for whatever reason, um, I think if there's someone who really sticks with me in terms of wanting to model maybe a career or just, just as a human being is Tony Randazzo.

Um, Tony is now, he was a long time principal dancer at San Francisco Ballet. I just remember his kindness to me as a young apprentice in the company and just, he was the big star there when I was there. He was, he was huge in the, in the Bay Area. And then, of course, when I went to Boston, he was there as the ballet master, and, um, he ran most of my rehearsals, uh, when I was doing principal roles.

So, I worked very closely with Tony, and we continue to have a relationship today. Very, we're very good friends still. So, I, I look to that, um, again, I [00:11:00] know people say how important kindness is, but as, as someone who can reflect back on it and see how, Those dancers who were kind to me in my, especially my formative years, especially when I didn't really understand the ropes of being a professional dancer.

Those people who helped me, we just said something nice to me in class or after rehearsal or after performance. It really, it really bolstered me as, as a young artist and dancer.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, absolutely. And how powerful to come from, like you said, the star at the time, the one who maybe is at a level of the career where like, I don't have to worry about that and worry about who the new apprentice is, but choosing to reach out and be kind and share that. And it's sounds like it's circled back for both of you.

You've been able to, uh, be a positive part of each other's careers. Yeah.

Jared: Very, very lucky to know Tony. He's an exceptional human being

Dr Chelsea: So since you didn't have that formal mentorship, it sounds like maybe it's more [00:12:00] intentionally integrated into your work now as a teacher and, and Dean, is there more of a, intentional, focus on mentorship?

Jared: I mean, without a doubt. Again, I reflect back and think. What would have helped me to be a more successful dancer? I always think about that. I just needed that one person who really believed in me and helped me. And I always say to my students as they're leaving and when they come back or they contact me, and this goes for professional dancers as well, because I do this with professional dancers as well, they do reach out to me for advice.

I just, like, what can I do to support them? How can I be that person that they can talk to, whether it's at school or they've left school, they've graduated, they've moved on to whatever, then they can tell me the good things, but I really encourage them to talk to me, to reach out to me when they're having whatever troubles they might be having in their life, that I could be that person for them, you know, because that's a hard thing.

You, you, maybe there's a bit of, [00:13:00] Um, perhaps some shame in feeling like when things are not going well for you, you don't want to talk to anybody. But it's in those exact moments, I think, if, if these young people know that there's someone there in their corner that they can talk to, it will just make everything just that much better in their lives.

And so I think that, I think again, that's being self reflective, that's what I would have wanted in my life. It would have been really helpful through some hardships, whether through the career, you know, not getting cast in things, this and that, just having someone to talk to about it that might be, that's removed from your current situation, right?

Yes, you have your friend in a company, but it's really helpful to have like an outside voice that can help guide you.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, of course. And I, I definitely feel like a lot of the work I do now is coming out of what I wish I had. And I think that's something that we can, it's a positive to be able to be reflective and say, what could have helped? How can I create that? And being that place. I don't know if we [00:14:00] can kind of dig into that a little bit, not thinking about any specific person, of course, but just kind of broadly when someone comes to you and they are disappointed, they didn't get the job, they didn't get cast in what they wanted, they're injured, right?

How do you talk to those people? What's your go to advice for people who are disappointed in something that has just happened in their career?

Jared: Yeah, I think it's like trying to assess where they currently are, right? Where are you right now? And what can you do to move forward positively? Okay, you didn't get the role. You didn't get the job. What can we do next? What can we plan to get to the next step? Because this didn't go well, but that's okay.

You know, how many, how many roles do actors audition for? Hundreds, right? They audition constantly. Maybe it's not hundreds, but it's, it's a lot.

Dr Chelsea: a lot.

Jared: audition all the time and they just don't get the roles. Dancers, it feels a little, it's a little bit tighter in terms of the number of things. That they are auditioning for [00:15:00] or, you know, roles they're going after.

So I think, okay, you didn't get this, what can you do for the next thing? And it, again, you have to assess where they are. Because they might be, for instance, if you are a shorter guy, for instance, in ballet. And the role that they wanted, they gave it to a taller guy because they had a taller girl. It's like, okay, look, understand that this is, this is why this happened.

And it's not, it's not what you want to happen, but it happened this way. So move on, put that over there. Cool. It happened. Let's move on and find something positive. How can you better yourself today? So that, you know, the next thing that comes along, you're more prepared for. Cause I think that's the only thing we really can do.

We can have no control over something that is so incredibly subjective. And I say this, this goes for auditioning as well, um, when I talk to my dancers about auditioning. It is so subjective what people want in that moment. And it is very timely too, so subjective and timely. They might just have a specific thing in mind in that moment.

[00:16:00] It is no reflection on them in that, you know, whether they get it or not. And that's hard, , it's hard to internalize all of that, but that's the reality of the situation.

Dr Chelsea: no, I think that's so true. And so many dancers, you take that rejection personally. But as you said, it sounds like at least one of your jobs because they happen to lose someone who was similar to you and it worked out. And so sometimes that subjectivity is in your favor and then sometimes it's not, but you can't change, you know, your height or something about how your quality of movement, if it fits or doesn't that. Being able to not take it personally. And I like that about. What's next? Let's plan for what you can control moving forward. Yeah. Makes sense in auditions too, of course.

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Dr Chelsea: Okay. I want to shift, uh, leaning on your expertise a little bit as a, as a Dean, as a professor so to the teachers, in that leadership role, you probably have to deal with discipline.

We have to deal with, uh, you know, being, being that person in charge, that leadership role. And I have talked a lot about [00:18:00] how. Punishment can hurt dancers mental state when it's done poorly, but then also like no discipline doesn't make for a good culture either. Right. You can be too lax about things.

And I think a lot of teachers are kind of afraid of discipline. Like finding that balance, I guess, is what I'm, what I'm thinking about. So do you have a kind of philosophy around your discipline and guidance for your dancers and how you run your program today?

Jared: Yeah, um, I'll just speak to myself because my colleagues do things differently, but we very much share, share so many values in terms of this conversation. Especially, you know, the dance world is going through just a monumental shift for the positive, right? Really, mental health is front and center, and it should be, and again, something that I wish had been in place when I was dancing, or

Dr Chelsea: Of course.

Jared: But I think for me, when I think about discipline with my dancers, it comes, it always, for me, it comes down to building that rapport in [00:19:00] the classroom with my students. There has to be a level of trust, right? It's, we're no longer in a place where it's just an authoritarian approach to methodology. It is meeting the students where they are and helping build them forward.

And once you have, when when everyone's on the same page in the class, we can push harder. So, um. I will ask more and more and just kind of, uh, as a gradient approach to add more things to them and ask more and more of them every day. And then of course you pull it back. So for me, I really think about building the rapport with my students, making sure we have a, a safer environment where they feel that they can be seen and heard and, and build that communication where they can ask me questions and not feel uncomfortable about it.

And so I teach from, Basically from the, from ninth grade all the way up through college, I, of course, I work with companies as well, but in my current position, it's, it's ninth grade through college. So you have a [00:20:00] wide swath of, of, of dancers and emotional maturities and intellectual maturities there. So that seems to work well for me.

 You know, you can have a disciplined environment without it being abusive or for students to feel uncomfortable. One thing, for instance, I can bring up an example of this, I, I teach partnering classes. And in partnering classes, I have 20 boys and I have, uh, probably 25 girls, maybe somewhere in that range.

And so, at the beginning, we talk about, you know, what is appropriate touch, what that means to them. We talk about, uh, I have each of them, you know, check in with their partners before we begin class. But the big thing is, I tell all the students, if you're having issues within the class with other dancers, please come and talk with me about it.

Or, reach out to another, another teacher about this. So that you can maintain the discipline within the class, but the dancers feel safe. They feel, they feel that they have a voice, and [00:21:00] they feel like they can talk about what's going on. And I think that for me, that feels like it's been very successful.

My dancers feel very comfortable with me. They know when I'm pushing them, they know that I'll pull it back to, if they look, if they're exhausted, for instance, if we've been, if we've been performing for, you know, a week or whatever, and then we come off of it, it's like they, they, they have that trust.

Dr Chelsea: I think that's wonderful. And I agree that we as a, as a dance community are shifting to appreciating more of the mental wellness, which of course I love and I'm here for it. Uh, and I'm so glad that you have that environment where students can talk to you. Do you ever feel like people push that too far or use it as like, well, this, I know I'm safe and comfortable here, so I can vent, or I can just be lazy today because I know that it will be okay.

Like, where's that balance of. Yes, we can talk about it. Yes, I can hear you. But also we have work to do because there's some serious goals here.[00:22:00] 

Jared: Yeah. And I think that, that, that becomes more of a one on one situation with the student, because in general, I find dancers, they're really, they're ready to go, they want, they want to work. And So I think that if you have a dancer who is maybe leaning too heavily in that direction, that, that they're always, they're always injured, or they're always tired, or they always have things going on.

I mean, of course, the first thing is getting communication. What's going on in their lives? Is this a dancer who really had a significant issue going on back there? How can we support them through that? And once you figure those things out, like, now we have to do our work. So it really is that balance. I mean, it's the art of teaching.

It's human beings. And, you always learn something every day because people are complicated and we don't know what's going on in people's lives, so we really have to come at it with compassion and empathy, um, which is usually the place I want to go versus like, you're just lazy, you need to work hard, it's like, maybe there's something going on there, let's [00:23:00] investigate that, let's try to help support them, and then once you figure that out, you come to an agreement with that dancer, okay, this is going on, okay.

Can we agree that whatever it is, we're going to put that aside for now, and we're going to do the work, or is it something we really need to address in that moment? And again, we are fortunate here where I teach at UNCSA that we have medical health professionals who can support them in other ways that I'm not qualified to.

So, being able to Um, to those professionals to support them if they have something significant going on in that direction.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. I agree. It's this balance of, you know, discipline, accountability and compassion. And I think that's where You can have both, but teachers feel like it's hard to find that balance, but I totally agree. You can have both. It's so wonderful that you have resource to share for your dancers and then you have the boundaries for yourself for you. They have the outside resources, but you know that you can offer compassion in the studio and with those one on one conversations. [00:24:00] I feel like there's been this shift where dancers are struggling to understand.

What is a true like mental health or a true kind of crisis and what is just this is hard and I don't want to I don't know if you see that, uh, shifting right now. You're nodding at me. Yeah.

Jared: And I think that's globally. I've

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Oh, me too.

Jared: I've heard it from teachers from across the globe, you know, and that's not just students. That's also professionals, right?

Dr Chelsea: Mm

Jared: where is that? It's really so again, I come back to, you just have to have good communication. I mean, it's really challenging our communication skills.

We're getting better at communicating and being more or being more human. Which is, this is such a art form. Um, you know, we do our, our instrument is our bodies. So that is hard and being in the mirror all the time. It is, it is a lot. So the only thing that I can say is, and we do have students certainly like that.

It's like, you just [00:25:00] have to have a conversation. You have to have a conversation in, in a setting that is appropriate, because if you have that conversation in front of the class, not going to work outside of the classroom, directly outside, probably not going to work. It probably needs to be a private conversation with either yourself.

Or another person there, you know, another teacher.

Dr Chelsea: Mm hmm.

Jared: I find that that, that's more effective, you don't put them on the spot. You know, and it feels very, no one wants to be made to feel uncomfortable like that. It might not give you the real thing that's going on. Yeah,

Dr Chelsea: hmm. Absolutely. And it's that offering compassion, but also being able to say, like, I see More in you, I believe you can get to this further plate, like expressing it's coming from a place of, I want more from you because I believe there's more in there, but also, you know, it's what we're doing now is not going to get us there.

So how do we, how do we address that? But I agree the one on one and not in front of people, it's not about shaming. It's about like calling up, not [00:26:00] just calling them out for not showing up today. Yeah.

Jared: and it's, it's an educational process too. It's like this, the art form demands that the process is in place. Meaning, class every day, be as disciplined as you can. Show up in the best way you can every day. Because it is an everyday thing. It's not a once a week kind of thing to do, to do it at a serious level.

The more recreational dancers, that's totally, that's great. That's, you know, it just depends on what your goals are, right? Where, where are your goals? So I think we can talk goal setting in that situation. We have dancers who are maybe not, um, performing at their highest capability or capacity. And maybe we, it's just a goal setting strategy with that dancer.

Like, okay, where do we want to go with this? And so, again, finding, using all the tools to motivate and or find something that's going to help them. It's not about, I'm not trying to push you to do something. You should be chasing it. I can, I can be behind you, but I can't [00:27:00] pull you to, you know, to your goal.

Dr Chelsea: I cannot do that. I would like to, but I can't. 

That's such a powerful part of teaching. I think we are like, I can't force you to want this. And sometimes I might want it more, uh, but you have to want it. And I think maybe that's another area of leadership I'd love to ask about with that goal setting piece. Do you talk to your dancers about goals explicitly or encourage them to reflect on it?

Dr Chelsea: Or what does that process look like for your students?

Jared: Yeah, I definitely do some goal setting with them. I do it at the beginning of every semester. Um, we talk about where they are. They usually write something to me. I have them write something like, what do they want to work on? And then we have a conversation. I have a, with the whole class. And we kind of share the things and there's lots of overlaps with them.

Um, we certainly get into goal setting when we start talking about the audition season for summer intensives or company auditions, which we're, we're a prime time audition season, again, have a plan, have a strategy. It's going to help scaffold you to be successful.

Not everything is going to work out, but if you [00:28:00] have a plan, you can just execute the plan. You can control that piece of it. You cannot control the other thing, what you get and what you don't get. But we can certainly be very targeted and intentional about what we want to do.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Oh, you were speaking exactly my kind of language. One of my favorite phrases is control the controllables, like as you're working for something like an audition that ultimately is not up to you, you know, what is going to happen in that end result. You can have the vision board, have the company, have the thing that you want, but truly the goal or like what is in my control that are my steps along the way.

Because then I think back to what you were saying earlier, if it doesn't happen, you can still lean on, I did everything I could do. I showed up as my best. It didn't fit what they wanted right now. I can carry this forward. That's great advice. else in leadership? I feel like you're such a master in this field and as a leadership, any lessons about leadership that you have learned over the years that you [00:29:00] would share with our teachers listening?

Jared: For teachers listening, in that respect, I've been very fortunate to have worked with a bunch of different leadership styles. And some really amazing leaders and some really maybe not so amazing leaders. It's been great. You know, I, I think about, um, probably one of the, the best example I could think of for good leadership is, uh, the former dean here, the new, the relatively new artistic director of American Ballet Theater, Susan Jaffe.

Um, she always came to all of our meetings with the faculty and with the students when she was rehearsing with them or teaching them class with this sense of empathy and to build them up, . So in terms of leadership, we do that in the front of the classroom every single day. And so, the more we can give our students the benefit of the doubt and lead with that empathy, the better off we're going to be in the classroom.

I, I really believe [00:30:00] that. Um, I know we need to still push. We certainly, there's a discipline that has to be learned. But, we don't know what the students are bringing into the classroom every day. We don't know that. Um, we can't know that. And, you know, it's not, that's really not our purview. But, we do need to. Help them succeed as best we can as, as teachers, as leaders, as artists, as educators, all of those things. Um, and raise up all of the students that are in the class. Cause some students, it's really easy to get to class. Some students, it's incredibly difficult to get to class. And so, just daily class basis, you don't have a level playing field right there.

That kid came from an hour away. That person lives, you know, just down the street. Just those things. We're not even talking about other more significant issues that happen in these kids lives. So I just think the more empathetic we can be to them and have that communication and that dialogue with them, the better off, um, you'll [00:31:00] be as a teacher, but also the students will be in your classroom.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, well said. I would love to get as like concrete and tangible as possible. Can you share what that looks like in your classroom? Like, do you say something specific at the beginning of every class? Is there some sort of, um, exercise that they're used to? What does that look like when you start class with a place of empathy?

Jared: When I walk in the classroom, I usually ask them how they're doing. We do something like that. Something that I've integrated into my classroom recently, and it takes different forms depending on the age of the kids that I am teaching. Um, one thing we try, I try to start each class with everyone either telling me something from their weekend, but more importantly, I usually like to have them say something, um, that's positive.

What's something positive that's going on in the world right now? It could be for them, it could be something they heard, it could be It could be anything positive. So we try and start it off that way. And then of course, there was one class that I had that, um, we had on Fridays. We told a joke at the beginning of class.

And so it just, [00:32:00] this rapport with the students and then we work hard, right? We do that. And then we focus and then we get into, you know, facing the bar, doing something to, you know, some kind of something to warm up the feet and ankles, and then we go into class, 

 And there was a period when I didn't do that. And then the students were like, Hey, we haven't talked about things that are positive in our life in a while. It was like, okay. So, so they get, they get used to those traditions that you create with them.

And I do think there's that it feels very personal because they're all sharing with each other. And I know that we all struggle with sometimes the clicks within classes. And so when everyone has to share equally. It makes them all, we're all equally vulnerable in that space, because I'll share something.

I'll come up with, I don't know, whatever. I'll talk about my dog or something, you know, or activity I might have done over the weekend or something. I mean, something that's appropriate.

Dr Chelsea: Absolutely. Well, and it's that, what you were saying about just being human, it's like have a minute for genuine connection [00:33:00] before we face the bar and warm up and it doesn't have to take a lot of time. It doesn't have to be, like you said, particularly deep. Sometimes it's just, we need a minute to laugh, but I think that's really powerful to just be a human and connect first and then show up and do the work.

Jared: Yeah, and I think I integrated that because I watched, I think I watched a TED talk about this, about starting every day or every class with being positive, and it just really resonated with me, so I've integrated that into my, my daily teaching as best I can.

Dr Chelsea: Great. Oh, it's wonderful. And I think it's something that I will teach dancers as well, that even if your teacher is not doing it, you can do it and you can, uh, you know, be five minutes early and sit at the side of the room before class starts and put yourself in that positive mindset reflective, or what do I want out of class today?

How do I want to show up in, you know, you can own it for yourself if it's not. If the teacher's not doing it, and as teachers, you can embrace this and be intentional about what you want out of the [00:34:00] room. And I think as teachers, I do the same. Like, if I am not having the best morning, if I start with this kind of positivity, it just makes my mood so much lighter before class starts.

Like, it works for us too. So like, I needed a reset so that we can have a better class too. It's not just the teenagers.

Jared: And I can tell you that I do this for, I try to do this in some respect for whether they're students and they're 9th and 10th graders or college kids, and companies too, when I go and teach company class. You know, you want to break the ice, you want to go in there. Professional dancers, it's hard. You know, they have, they have lots of work to do, but you want to, you want to start the class out on the right foot.

You still have to get the work done. I mean, at the end of the day, if you're talking about professionals, there's a lot of work to be done. So you have to really respect their time and not make it, not make it a, um, about you. You have to make it about their day and what they need in that moment. And, you know, it can be intimidating teaching, teaching professional dancers of, [00:35:00] significant, accomplishment can be, you know, it, it's.

It's a lot of responsibility. So,

Dr Chelsea: Oh, I'm sure. Well, similarly though, they are still just humans who as much as they are disciplined and have so much work in front of them will benefit from a minute of genuine connection, no matter how talented you are, no matter how long you've been dancing. Yeah. That is a, that's a great strategy. I love that.

Any other tangible teaching advice strategies that you think helps your students either on that positivity side, or maybe in the mental toughness, resilient side that you think helps support your dancers?

Jared: goal setting. I know I've already touched on it. Goal setting is really helpful. Because it helps them block out the noise. Another thing is disconnect. Please put the screens down. I'm equally guilty of it. Have screen free time. Just go read a book. I mean, that's the wonderful thing about dance. It's like you have no screens, no [00:36:00] phones, keep them away.

Just be present with each other. You know, those, those interpersonal are skills, and they need, they take time to develop. So, um, that will help them be more resilient human beings, because everything is relational. You cannot fundraise. You cannot build a community. You cannot work in a company, you cannot be successful in your job necessarily if you cannot build good relationships with the people who are around you.

And if you're really good at it, all kinds of doors open up if you're, if you're a good people person. Right? And that doesn't mean everyone needs to be a people person, but it does mean that those skills are so helpful and it will help them build their own resilience and will allow them to move forward.

More easily through their lives.

Dr Chelsea: Absolutely. And I, I like that sense of owning that you don't have to be this big people person, but that you're building the relationships and the resilience of [00:37:00] goal setting and you're right. We did mention it, but let's, let's be tangible about it. What kinds of goals do you want them to set? So is it about like technique goals?

Is it about big long term, like roles that they want, like what kind of goals do you encourage for them? 

Jared: I think that becomes a conversation. I I hate to keep going back to that. I think it's like, why don't we I I do all of those things. Let's talk about what do we want. So, I start my year, my semester, and we have like, hey, what are we gonna do? Where are we gonna be at the end of the semester? Where are we gonna be at the end of the year?

 Where do you want your dancing career to go? Where do you want to go next? Do you want to go to this summer intensive? Do you want to go to that summer intensive? So, we do all of those things. I, I think it's individual for the dancer. You might have a dancer who's like, I want to be in fill in the blank, New York City Ballet, San Francisco, Paris Opera.

That's a big goal. That means we have to, we kind of have to, um, reverse engineer it how are we going to get here? What do we need to do to get there? So we can build it backwards that way. And then you [00:38:00] build it up from the ground. So you build it backwards and then you build it back up the other way. So, if you have a dancer who has a really big goal, they might say, I really want to do that, or, I want to, I want my pirouettes to be much better.

So, and then you just break it down, you just reverse engineer, okay, here's what we need to do, here are all the steps, and then let's work on all these fundamentals, and then scaffold ourselves getting a little bit better as we go. So, I do it, I do it all the different ways, and it's, it's so personal, and so individual for dancers,

Dr Chelsea: Oh, it's going to help all their motivation when you're not trying to get them to all push towards the same goal. It's tailored to them and what they truly want. And then it's so much easier to hold them accountable to that in class. It's like, okay, if pirouettes were your goal, then when we're doing this in class, like How are you receiving the feedback?

How are, where are you putting your energy and your focus as we're doing this? And if you want that summer intensive, are you taking care of your body and recovering the way that you said you would? And, um, and I, oh, I know the other thing I was going to say back to what you're [00:39:00] saying about screen time, that can be a goal in and of itself about how do I take care of myself?

And I'll talk to dancers all the time, you know, to a. Any teenager, I'll say something about having a healthy activity. That's not a screen. And for a lot of dancers dance is the healthy activity without a screen, which is great, but we need something else. That's not dance. That's not a screen and having that sense of self or what can I do with myself?

That's not tied to this thing that I love, but also not just sitting on a screen. As you said, it can be go read a book, go on a walk, cook something, craft something, talk to other people, you know, it's, but finding that place outside of dance and outside of a screen is really challenging. But I think also an incredible goal.

When somebody says I want to have this big lofty dance goal. The goal could be about recovery and care outside of the studio.

Jared: Yeah, and [00:40:00] I, I agree with all of those things. I think, I do encourage so many of my students to, to find something outside of, of, of dance, as you said, because it really inform, it helps inform their dance. And it gives them something else to make their, their mind go to something different. So you're not just fixated on the one thing, right?

It's like watching water boil. It's going to take forever if you're watching. Go, go do something else, go do something else in the house, and then the water will be, it will boil when it needs to boil. So,

Dr Chelsea: absolutely. I think it's very, it's a healthy life skill as well. As we get older, like dance to both of us, dance is still part of our professional lives, but it's not the only thing about who you are. It's a piece of who you are and having that is such a great balance. So before we leave, will you please share how listeners can find you connect and learn more about masterclasses or the work that you're doing?

Jared: yeah, um, well, right now my, my website's under construction, so that'll be up soon. Hopefully by the time this airs, it'll be up and running, but you [00:41:00] can, follow me on Instagram. I'm there. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Please feel free to reach out, via either of those platforms. I always get back to people if they're reaching out for, I get, I get requests for guest teaching.

I get requests for consultations. I get requests for all kinds of things or advice even. So please feel free if you're listening to this, um, to reach out. If you have questions, I'm happy to get back to you. And provide whatever advice I can. As far as my teaching, I'm here at UNCSA for the majority of the year, and then summers I'm usually guest teaching out and about, um, as I can.

That is always a goal of mine to go be out in the field a little bit more, um, during the year too, if I can. So,

Dr Chelsea: I will make sure those are linked and available for people as well to reach out and it makes sense to have that the goal in the summer to go travel and be around more places and teach I agree, I'm similar. So, thank you so much for being here today and for sharing your thoughts with us.

I really appreciate it.

Jared: great. Thank you so much, Chelsea, for having me. It's been, it's been a pleasure [00:42:00] talking with you

Dr Chelsea: say thank you.

Thank you for listening to Passion for Dance. You can find all episode resources at passionfordancepodcast. com. Be sure to follow me on Instagram for more high performance tips at dr. chelsea. perotti, that's P I E R O T T I. This podcast is for passionate dancers and dance educators who are ready to change our industry by creating happier, more successful dancers.

I'm Dr. Chelsea, and keep sharing your passion for dance with the world.